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Post by maggyd on Dec 10, 2008 23:11:52 GMT 1
Youve made great progress Ali  I would have thought (mind Im far from an expert) that if you have good soil a spades depth thats alright isnt it?!! isnt it the norm to plant a potatoe crop first to help break the soil up  . You have a little artist in the making there and if you cant see that that is your CAT you dont recognise Art when you see it!!  |
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Post by karenwl on Dec 11, 2008 16:15:11 GMT 1
Ace model  |
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Post by alicat on Dec 11, 2008 21:22:22 GMT 1
I was wondering if we dug down to the clay and sprinkled some on, it would help to break the clay down and so aid drainage. the soil on the top (A good spades depth in places) is really very good.  I'm hoping these frosts are working there magic. ;D Shame it's too hard for me to dig though.  I've only used it for the soil on or near the surface, not sure how it would work further down. It's not subsoil you are getting further down is it?  I presume you are doubledigging the plot? I only used the Claybreaker here, and the previous place, as I had to dig the plot over with limited resources, so the manure went further down (one to two spades depth) and didn't have enough to put a layer on top. On the top I left it rough and sprinkled the CB and over the weeks it certainly improved things. Don't forget though, I was doing this, when the frost wasn't going to be as hard, so used the CB instead of allowing the frost to do the work! Hope that makes sense!  Keith I'm really not sure if it is sub soil or not - it crossed my mind though  And I know I don't want to bring sub soil up to the surface if I can help it. Not double digging as such, just removing the weeds and then turning over the soil. What you can't see in the photo as I have said before is there is a really big dip about a third of the way down the plot and by the fence is a pile of soil that looks like the top soil  We do intend to put this back onto the main site when the weeds are removed along with the compost from home. Do you know of a site for the clay breaker as you call it. ? |
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Post by madonplants on Dec 11, 2008 22:58:23 GMT 1
I've only used it for the soil on or near the surface, not sure how it would work further down. It's not subsoil you are getting further down is it? I presume you are doubledigging the plot? I only used the Claybreaker here, and the previous place, as I had to dig the plot over with limited resources, so the manure went further down (one to two spades depth) and didn't have enough to put a layer on top. On the top I left it rough and sprinkled the CB and over the weeks it certainly improved things. Don't forget though, I was doing this, when the frost wasn't going to be as hard, so used the CB instead of allowing the frost to do the work! Hope that makes sense! Keith I'm really not sure if it is sub soil or not - it crossed my mind though And I know I don't want to bring sub soil up to the surface if I can help it. Not double digging as such, just removing the weeds and then turning over the soil. What you can't see in the photo as I have said before is there is a really big dip about a third of the way down the plot and by the fence is a pile of soil that looks like the top soil We do intend to put this back onto the main site when the weeds are removed along with the compost from home. Do you know of a site for the clay breaker as you call it. ? I bought our clay breaker from a large local garden centre. I also bought the large size and I expect you would need that too, at least. I probably went through about third of mine and hopefully it still will be OK, when I do some more around the front and also where I want to do a little veg plot. Crocus stocks it, but only the small box. |
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Post by Bennetts on Dec 13, 2008 19:22:50 GMT 1
Ooh the clay looks solid, have you thought of starting a pottery business, like making pots. How about putting in some land drains, trenches part filled with gravel flowing towards the marsh, then putting raised beds above them. Also what crops like moist conditions?
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Post by alicat on Dec 13, 2008 20:22:33 GMT 1
Love the clay model!  Well done Ali, you've done so much already! Thanks Debbie, Karen and Maggyd According to Meg it is not a cat but a squirrel and she is called lottie. ;D There is one thing to be said for this clay it kept the kids amused for a good while. ;D Maggy Yes your right but its only a spades depth at the top, in the middle there is no soil at all to speak of and down the bottom by the pond is about 1/2 to 1 spades depth. Your right about the spuds too and we will be growing them don't think I want a whole plot of them though. Then again if it helps - Sack of spuds anyone ;D |
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Post by alicat on Dec 13, 2008 20:44:31 GMT 1
Keith I'm really not sure if it is sub soil or not - it crossed my mind though And I know I don't want to bring sub soil up to the surface if I can help it. Not double digging as such, just removing the weeds and then turning over the soil. What you can't see in the photo as I have said before is there is a really big dip about a third of the way down the plot and by the fence is a pile of soil that looks like the top soil We do intend to put this back onto the main site when the weeds are removed along with the compost from home. Do you know of a site for the clay breaker as you call it. ? I bought our clay breaker from a large local garden centre. I also bought the large size and I expect you would need that too, at least. I probably went through about third of mine and hopefully it still will be OK, when I do some more around the front and also where I want to do a little veg plot. Crocus stocks it, but only the small box. Thanks Keith i'll have a look at our local GC, I need to go anyway for dads xmas present. |
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Post by alicat on Dec 13, 2008 20:59:22 GMT 1
Ooh the clay looks solid, have you thought of starting a pottery business, like making pots. How about putting in some land drains, trenches part filled with gravel flowing towards the marsh, then putting raised beds above them. Also what crops like moist conditions? I'm sure Megan would  but I don't intend to keep digging a hole for them to make models, besides the contract stipulates we are not allowed to remove any soil/clay/minerals from the site and we especially can't sell anything made/grown from the lottie.  Funny you should say about the trenches I was wondering about doing a gulley running down the length of the path towards the swamp. Need to check with Rob though. Not sure what crops like moist conditions Maybe I should start a new thread asking the question. |
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Post by Sleepy on Dec 13, 2008 21:46:59 GMT 1
Ooh the clay looks solid, have you thought of starting a pottery business, like making pots. How about putting in some land drains, trenches part filled with gravel flowing towards the marsh, then putting raised beds above them. Also what crops like moist conditions? Do you have an allotment Bennetts? If not, maybe you could get one next to Ali? |
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Post by Bennetts on Dec 17, 2008 9:47:14 GMT 1
Its a thought, though at times I feel that I have enough hobbies and calls on my time already. What with walking, gardening, maintaining the car, maintaining the house, canoing and visiting relations.
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Post by alicat on Dec 17, 2008 20:10:44 GMT 1
You can come and help with the digging anytime Bennetts |
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Post by alicat on Jan 2, 2009 22:43:54 GMT 1
Finally got down the lottie today, before Christmas although the weather was much warmer (10 degrees + ) we just couldn't find time, and after Christmas it has been so cold (one night the temp got down to – 6 degrees ) the ground would have been frozen. The temperature today was about 5 degrees so still cold and the clay soil was still a little hard. - So no digging. The main reason for going was to take down the floor boards we have acquired to edge the paths and maybe use some for raised beds. We also took down some pallets to make a compost bin, they are so big they didn't fit in the car so Rob had to take them down on the wheelbarrow with Matt's help of sitting on top. ;D- He had fun trying to get through the styles. ;D When we arrived the first thing we noticed is our neighbours have been busy and dug over the whole of their patch and edged out the path. On closer inspection though we think they have just rotorvated the whole area as no weeds have been removed. Ummm......... Have to say we felt a little envious as their soil looks a lot better than ours and no sign of clay, we are wondering now if maybe our top layer of soil has been removed at some point because we have such a big dip in the middle. Anyway we have made the decision to weed kill the weeds as we can't see any point in digging up the clay because we are not sure if it's sub soil or not, if it is, it won't help the veg at all that we intend to grow. After that we are going to construct raised beds which we always intended to do because of the high water table. So tomorrow we will weedkill the rest of the area weather permitting and build the compost bin and path edges. If after reading this you have any suggestions that might help I would be very grateful. One other thing is, because we are so close to a conservation area, will the weed killer leach into the swamp and harm the environment. ?
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Post by floweringcherry on Jan 2, 2009 22:55:03 GMT 1
You have been busy Ali - you will make good use of the floorboards and pallets.
Usually weedkiller is applied when the plants are actively growing. What weedkiller are you using. Most are Glyphosate based now which is systemic, so the weeds have to absorb it.
Although they state that it breaks down on contact with the soil, I'm sure there is some controversy about it affecting water courses. I'm sure someone else on here will know.
If you just have annual weeds, I would just dig or rotavate it. Not a good idea with perennial weeds though as it chops up the roots.
I must admit I don't use chemicals on veg or the ground around it, that is just my choice of course.
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Post by maggyd on Jan 2, 2009 23:09:45 GMT 1
Ali did you notice on Gardeners world Joe swift straight away got a digger in and turned it all over!! You might be better doing what he did built raised beds and get some top soil delivered in fact I think the cCouncil delivered to All the allotments a load and they all went with thee wheelbarrows and took what they wanted! So I would ry and catch the other lottie holders and have a word!! Or you could always e.mail Joe Swift and ask him!!! |
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Post by alicat on Jan 11, 2009 20:05:11 GMT 1
You have been busy Ali - you will make good use of the floorboards and pallets. Usually weedkiller is applied when the plants are actively growing. What weedkiller are you using. Most are Glyphosate based now which is systemic, so the weeds have to absorb it. Although they state that it breaks down on contact with the soil, I'm sure there is some controversy about it affecting water courses. I'm sure someone else on here will know. If you just have annual weeds, I would just dig or rotavate it. Not a good idea with perennial weeds though as it chops up the roots. I must admit I don't use chemicals on veg or the ground around it, that is just my choice of course. Thanks FC. We've decided not to use the weedkiller until I have asked the local council if it will affect the consevation area. Really wish I only had annual weeds but there are loads of Perrenial weeds too So rotavating is a no go too. Yes I did see Maggy, i'm amazed that the weeds didn't grow back. Not many lottie holders around at the moment but as i've got to phone the council maybe I will ask about the topsoil / compost. - Thanks Maggy. We managed to get down the lottie again on Saturday even though the temperture barely managed to get above 0 degrees. |
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Post by alicat on Jan 11, 2009 20:12:54 GMT 1
Rob constructing the compost bin - its masive ;D and the kids keep using it as a playhouse. : ;D  The finished article  our friends and I talking about the clay in the soil.  introducing Bennetts (Dave)  And finally the path way and what we redug.   Sorry one more, the sunset as we left  |
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Post by emseypop on Jan 11, 2009 20:13:25 GMT 1
You have been busy Ali - you will make good use of the floorboards and pallets. Usually weedkiller is applied when the plants are actively growing. What weedkiller are you using. Most are Glyphosate based now which is systemic, so the weeds have to absorb it. Although they state that it breaks down on contact with the soil, I'm sure there is some controversy about it affecting water courses. I'm sure someone else on here will know. If you just have annual weeds, I would just dig or rotavate it. Not a good idea with perennial weeds though as it chops up the roots. I must admit I don't use chemicals on veg or the ground around it, that is just my choice of course. Thanks FC. We've decided not to use the weedkiller until I have asked the local council if it will affect the consevation area. Really wish I only had annual weeds but there are loads of Perrenial weeds too So rotavating is a no go too. Yes I did see Maggy, i'm amazed that the weeds didn't grow back. Not many lottie holders around at the moment but as i've got to phone the council maybe I will ask about the topsoil / compost. - Thanks Maggy. We managed to get down the lottie again on Saturday even though the temperture barely managed to get above 0 degrees. If your ringing the council, it may be a good time to ask about bark chippings, some site have them delivered regularly, or depending on your area (and maybe the season) you can arrange to have some dropped off. Great stuff if you can get it. I really admire your enthusasum, getting down there at this time of year, is no mean feat, and fitting a lottie in around family life is tricky too. What a smashing job your OH's maqde on the compost bin, i'm green! ;D |
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Post by alicat on Jan 11, 2009 20:16:47 GMT 1
Thanks Ems Sorry tea is served so I have to go, will try and get on later. Em's Apparently bark chipping's are available, I just need to find out where it's supplied. I have heard though that bark chippings encourage wire worm. ( causes problems for POTATOES. ) We have a pile of leaves though for the taking. ;D I have to admit trying to fit it all in is not easy, especially with the weather as it is. |
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Post by maggyd on Jan 11, 2009 20:32:26 GMT 1
Ali I cant beleive what a difference in such a short time you and hubby must have been working really hard and that compost bin is super you will have to lash it down or get it filled so nobody pinches it! no wonder I havent seen you you have been far too tired to come on here I bet your falling asleep on your feet a good tired though. |
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Post by Biggles on Jan 11, 2009 20:39:40 GMT 1
Hello Ali,
So that is what you have been busy doing--You have a treasure with Dave (Bennets) he has done a smashing job with the compost Bin. I bet the kids are as excited as you with the allotment.
Hope to see more --I haven't an allotment but am still very interested --Bigs
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Post by Sweetleaf on Jan 11, 2009 21:56:47 GMT 1
Excellent Ali! That clay looks like it was heavy digging though, definitely go as far as you can with the raised bed option, I made massive ones, filling them with topsoil and tons of homemade compost, they really improve drainage and look very attractive. As for Potatoes, the real reason they break up the soil is all the digging involved in planting and earthing them up! Emsey is right about the chippings, they smell lovely when they are laid down, make a comfortable walking area, and aesthetically they are very pleasing, with the bonus of repressing weeds. I always said, life is too short to be weeding paths! |
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Post by Sleepy on Jan 11, 2009 22:34:34 GMT 1
Fantastic Ali. You've worked very hard and made marvelous progress. You are both really going to enjoy the coming summer ;D
The happiest days of my life was when my wife and I had an allotment.
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Post by alicat on Jan 11, 2009 23:42:18 GMT 1
Ali I cant beleive what a difference in such a short time you and hubby must have been working really hard and that compost bin is super you will have to lash it down or get it filled so nobody pinches it! no wonder I havent seen you you have been far too tired to come on here I bet your falling asleep on your feet a good tired though. Thanks Maggy We've been trying to work hard but it's not easy with this freezing weather. - I will pass on your congrats to Rob about the compost bin - he'll be chuffed to bits. :Don't think we need to pin it down thou, it's so heavy nobody will move it far. ;D I have to say after a day down the lottie i'm not in the mood for anything else other than plonking myself on the sofa. But YES it's a good tired. |
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Post by alicat on Jan 11, 2009 23:46:14 GMT 1
Hello Ali, So that is what you have been busy doing--You have a treasure with Dave (Bennets) he has done a smashing job with the compost Bin. I bet the kids are as excited as you with the allotment. Hope to see more --I haven't an allotment but am still very interested --Bigs Thanks Biggs Ummm Dave is our neighbour and helped with the digging - He is a treasure though The kids love it and can't wait for the pond to spring into life. |
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Post by alicat on Jan 12, 2009 0:10:27 GMT 1
Excellent Ali! That clay looks like it was heavy digging though, definitely go as far as you can with the raised bed option, I made massive ones, filling them with topsoil and tons of homemade compost, they really improve drainage and look very attractive. As for Potatoes, the real reason they break up the soil is all the digging involved in planting and earthing them up! Emsey is right about the chippings, they smell lovely when they are laid down, make a comfortable walking area, and aesthetically they are very pleasing, with the bonus of repressing weeds. I always said, life is too short to be weeding paths! Hi SL - How are you keeping ? It is very heavy going, the soil is so much heavier than our garden soil. Hard to believe when we are only 10 min's away. We will definatley be having some raised beds. And growing pots, although not to get rid of the weeds. - It's amazing how many people have told me to grow spuds just to break up the soil and get rid of weeds. Like I said to Em's, Rob has been told by another lottie person, bark Chippings can cause a problem - wire worm. - What do you think other than that, I love using Bark Chippings. - Just thought I have used bark chippings around the veg plots in the garden and didn't suffer with Wire worm. I also read though that wire worm love newly dug over grassland, - guess that applies to most unused allotments. |
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I presume you are doubledigging the plot? I only used the Claybreaker here, and the previous place, as I had to dig the plot over with limited resources, so the manure went further down (one to two spades depth) and didn't have enough to put a layer on top. On the top I left it rough and sprinkled the CB and over the weeks it certainly improved things. Don't forget though, I was doing this, when the frost wasn't going to be as hard, so used the CB instead of allowing the frost to do the work! Hope that makes sense! 
And I know I don't want to bring sub soil up to the surface if I can help it. 
