Dandelion lawn

[debbiem]

I have 2 levels of lawn in my modest garden. One is never going to have grass despite seeding it as it hardly gets any light and it also has to contend with chickens rampaging over it, but we have decided to get round that with bark chippings.

But the other level of 'lawn' is pure wilderness, predominantly dandelions. Now I don't mind this really as our whole garden is purposefully overgrown and very shrubby and wild, and it's all our own work and I love it. But neighbours might think we're being very selfish and a bit negligent in letting all these dandelions do their thing and admittedly it's beginning to look scrappy. I have no idea why the chickens don't pile into these instaed of the other lawn but they just can't keep on top of all the growth!
Sorry for rambling but how would you recommend getting rid of a sea of dandelions? Is there a magic cure? I think I'd rather dig them up manually than put anything chemical in the garden. I did even think of strimming them!

[debbiem]

Thanks The witch - you know, the daisy grubber was exactly the tool I could picture in my head, as my Mum and Dad had one when I lived at home. I always wondered what it was called.

This is how it looks today - we inherited the dandelions when we moved in but they're much worse this year;



I think I'm going to have to dig the whole lot over and remove the lot! That's about 25x15ft.

[madonplants]

Are you organic, Mrs B, as this might be a case for a lawn weedkillers or worse, glyphosate? When I get dandelions, I dig them out with my trowel, roots and all. You have to get all of that tap root out or it will come up again. Then fill the hole with good soil, sometimes then sprinkle a little lawn seed. Like The witch says, best done when the ground is damp. Have you tried constantly mowing the 'lawn' with the blades set low? Eventually the weeds will die off, but it may take a while.

I like that tool of yours, The witch. Maybe it's time to go through the car boot sales for one like that.

[Sleepy]

May 29, 2008 13:07:16 GMT 1 @madonplants said:

Are you organic, Mrs B, as this might be a case for a lawn weedkillers or worse, glyphosate? When I get dandelions, I dig them out with my trowel, roots and all. You have to get all of that tap root out or it will come up again. Then fill the hole with good soil, sometimes then sprinkle a little lawn seed. Like The witch says, best done when the ground is damp. Have you tried constantly mowing the 'lawn' with the blades set low? Eventually the weeds will die off, but it may take a while.

I like that tool of yours, The witch. Maybe it's time to go through the car boot sales for one like that.

I agree with Keith. There is only two ways to deal with a dandilion patch like that. One is to use an excavator and remove 18" on top soil - replace with clean, fresh top soil.

Or the cheaper and more sensible way - treat (probably 2 or 3 times) with a glyphosate based weedkiller - Roundup, tumbleweed or resolva.

There is a third option - live with the dandilions

[Sleepy]

Dandelion Lawn - wasn't that a mini TV series starring the lovely Felicity Kendal?

[4pygmies]

To be honest Debbie, I would go for the far harder option but better in the long term and hand dig it all out......sorry! I have tried weedkiller for the first time ever this season and haven't been very impressed at all! I really don't think it has more than slightly slowed down the most iniquitous weeds.....I am going back to the organic way and getting down to some serious double digging and rooting out.....in an area as small as that it needn't take you very long to dig out the roots and at least you can be sure the chickens (oh, and the children.... ;D) aren't getting into contact with any toxic chemicals. And just think what the exercise will do for you!
If you strim you will have to do it very regularly and for at least a season to make sure the roots don't re emerge. And even then I think they would.......
I've been double digging my flower garden, which is about 25 - 30 ft square, to get out the couch grass, nettles, creeping buttercup and soapwort. It's hard work but I am actually enjoying it now as I know that I can do a better job than any chemicals......and their roots are horrendous compared to dandelions. If I can do it - so can you! ;D
I really regret ever succumbing to temptation and using Glysophate now..... so make sure you are quite convinced of its efficacy before you proceed

[debbiem]

Thanks everyone. I would never have gone down the chemical route so yesterday afternoon I dug over about half of it removing all the weeds(and stones and boulders) and feel like it's a good job jobbed now.
The chickens had a good time excavating the dug over earth too. It's only a start but already I have some nice soil to plant a few more things in.

I think I'll put a few paving stones along the middle of the area when it's all dug over, plant some of my plants which are in pots at the moment on either side. I have loads of manure to add to the soil too, courtesy of my hens.

Lovely!

Thanks again everyone.

[debbiem]

It's quite woodlandy The witch, one side gets a fair bit of sun but I would say dappled shade for the area I'm digging at the moment. I have a very good idea which plants in pots atm are going where. It's a blessing in disguise, all these dandelions - I now have a nice area to release the plants into. ;D

[debbiem]

Thanks - I'm off out there in a while for round 2. ;D

[4pygmies]

Definately worth it - that's great Debbie! I do believe that the hard work of digging is much more rewarding than shoving a load of chemicals on - you've still got to dig it to plant it afterwards haven't you? And you haven't destroyed a micro ecosystem doing it either.....it'll look lovely when you've finished

[debbiem]

I thought you might like to see a 'during' photo(as well as the before and after ones) of work in progress - I'd dug the dandelions out along with the usual boulders and rubble, and then had a flash of inspiration(rare) and asked OH whether he would be able to build a path up the garden using all the stone, rubble and boulders which we'd heaped up. It's looking good! He's going to build the path leading into the gazebo and also up to a seat we're putting up the end of the garden. We'll have flower beds on either side and it'll all look so much nicer! And there's still loads of grass and greenery for the chickens. ;D






We're going to put paving stones down the middle of the lower 'lawn' and do the same kind of thing there, planting loads of shrubs on either side. We did think of bark chippings but with the chickens what a mistake that would be!

[debbiem]

Thanks The witch.

I can just imagine the bark chippings in the bog garden, all over the patio, covered in loose stones from the flower bed where then hens've gone scratching, in fact probably everywhere but on the lawn!
BAAAAD idea! ;D

[madonplants]

That looks really good, Mrs B. What a great idea about the stones. What's the flowerpot for, did you want to pot some of the weeds up, as a reminder? ;D

Can't wait for the after pictures, now!

[debbiem]

Jun 2, 2008 13:31:46 GMT 1 @madonplants said:

That looks really good, Mrs B. What a great idea about the stones. What's the flowerpot for, did you want to pot some of the weeds up, as a reminder? ;D

Can't wait for the after pictures, now!

The pot's just me being messy Keith, and I think one of the plants just planted on the right, either the Buddleia or the Guelder Rose, must have come out of it. Or was it dug up along with the stones..... ;D

[debbiem]

We are going to do the same with our bottom bit of lawn as it's had it as a lawn. It was never up to much as it doesn't get much sunshine. I outlined the path and dug up a bit of the lawn now and again and it seems completely dead! Even the chickens weren't interested in what was underneath it was so lifeless. : We know we have enough stone to do both paths but I wonder if anyone can suggest what kind of plants I could plant on the right of the path, between the path and the flower bed. If you can imagine the path going through the middle of this bottom bit of lawn. We'll also have a bit joining it from the left by the apple tree but this bit on the right cannot have plants which are too tall or they'll obscure the flower bed, have got to be really tough to withstand chickens and slugs and snails and can't be too fussy with which soil they'll grow in. I'm imagining something low growing and scratchy. I can improve the soil but the height and resilience are more important.
Any ideas?
I did think of a low-growing Symphoricarpos like one we have in the flower bed but it'll lose it's leaves in Winter - I'd rather something evergreen or at least dense.
Tall order or what?


n.b. The Cordyline in the pot is now planted up by that clump of Montbretia by the steps. I can visualise how this will all look but I just wondered if anyone had any ideas about the area on the right running along the flower bed.

[4pygmies]

How about a sedum bed type of planting MrsB? You could grow the sort of plants they put on a green roof - red clovers, field scabious, wild Basil, etc along with low growing garden plants like Pinks, Limanthus, Stonecrops, maybe some species Narcissus, Scillas etc for Spring colour - the list is endless really....does that appeal? You could perhaps use some of those rocks to make it trickier for the chickens to rip up plants - make it a decorative rock garden?

[debbiem]

I never thought of that! That's a lovely idea 4P, I'll think on that. We have to be careful with cottage garden plants as the slugs here annihilate them but I can picture how it would look. I like that idea but I'm not sure if overall they'd be tough enough but it's food for thought, thanks!

[debbiem]

I should think a way to get a good idea of what'll be happy in that spot is to go and have a walk around one of the stone quarries around here.There's one a stone's throw(ouch) down the road where flora and fauna abounds, so anything that grows well there will do the same in my garden since I should imagine all our stone comes from there anyway and the soil is most likely to be the same as there. Plus the plants there will be exposed to the same kind of weather. I should go there and no doubt have the odd snip or two.

[4pygmies]

Good idea...a woman after my own heart! Nothing better than a few freebies....you're only providing a new habitat for them to expand into, aren't you? ;D There are some beautiful rock/alpine plants - tough as old boots too, many of them...

[debbiem]

Here is the ex-bottom lawn as it stands this afternoon.





It's a shame they came out so bright but I am really pleased with how it's going. Note the emeny snaking its way down the path-to-be, lying in wait....
There are all sorts in the flower bed, cordylines, hebe,lavendars, cape fuchsias, montbretia, rosemary, a black elder, iceplant, cranesbill, ballota, chaenomeles, in fact all the waifs and strays from various areas of the garden. And a huge pile of stones to boot. And with the palms on the other side of the path, when it all matures it'll look quite nice I think....

[4pygmies]

So do I! It looks pretty nice now It's good that you have made a virtue out of what could be seen as a very challenging plot - always best to go with the flow isn't it? And I have faith that you will subjugate the enemy somehow....could you use some of your stones to make a channel for it? Your garden always looks so interesting, Debbie! Lots of little nooks and crannies....good fun!

[debbiem]

Thanks 4P. The new flower bed is still pretty raw but it'll get there.
Now to tackle the other side, to the left of the palms. I've got two Aruncus in pots and that's where they're going, around the bog garden area. They like it shady and moist so hopefully it'll all go to plan.

OH is going to use most of the stones for the paths, but I still reckon there'll be enough left over for a garage or two! The satisfaction of digging out a mega boulder, can't beat it! There was one though that got the better of me, I kept digging round it, and digging round it, and in the end the hole went right up to the start of the raised flower bed so I left that one in there, which was a bit frustrating. OH reckons that if I'd got that one out all the garden walls would've fallen in.

[debbiem]

Thanks The witch, but it's quite shady around there until early afternoon. I hope the lavendars, the rosemary and the solar lights are going to get enough sunshine there! I think so though.