Bali climate change deal

[4pygmies]

I've only heard about all the drama and confrontation on the early morning news so I don't know what the final situation is at the conference but I just wanted to register my total disgust at the most powerful nation (and most polluting) in the world's political STUPIDITY. Their arrogant and pigheaded attitude to the dire plight of the world and their wilful refusal to constrain their population's profligacy and wasteful way of life is endangering us all. We all must change and millions of us are trying to behave responsibly but if the world's politicians don't get off their backsides, stop bickering over piffling details and DO SOMETHING MEANINGFUL, then this planet and all the creatures who live on it are in for some very bad times.......I just don't understand why they don't just get on with it - they all have children and grandchildren don't they? Whatever the causes of climate change, as the dominant species we are only ones able to make a difference.
I hate politics - it turns passionate humans into bureaucratic idiots.

[Sweetleaf]

It seems to me they have flown out there to have a long discussion about nothing! Its ridiculous that they have burned tons of fossil fuel to get there and then they have allowed the big polluting nations to basically make a nonsense of the whole affair Could they not have done this by video conferencing?

[roan]

The thing is, it's not about saving the planet, it's about self interest, grandstanding and political point scoring. It will end up with us paying more taxes and won't make a blind bit of difference to climate change.

However, the politicians will feel very good about it all and pat themselves on the back as usual as they fly around the world in private jets, drive huge gas guzzling cars and gorge themselves on food and wine!

To be honest the whole thing makes me feel sick!

[4pygmies]

I quite agree and the level of contempt and indifference it shows for the peoples of this world makes me feel sick too. But I did feel slightly reassured when I saw the levels of frustration and upset felt because of the behaviour the more recalcitrant delegates (you know which country I mean....)... there are some people at the conference who understand their responsibilites I think, a few anyway..... A wasted opportunity though.

[roan]

I see Prince Charles is sending a hologram of himself to a conference and saving 30 tons!

Now that would be a novel idea for politicians!

Can you imagine a conference where everyone sends a hologram of themselves!

[4pygmies]

I think Star Wars gave him the idea and he's been waiting for the technology to exist. It could change the world........

[mickthecactus]

roan said:

The thing is, it's not about saving the planet, it's about self interest, grandstanding and political point scoring. It will end up with us paying more taxes and won't make a blind bit of difference to climate change.

However, the politicians will feel very good about it all and pat themselves on the back as usual as they fly around the world in private jets, drive huge gas guzzling cars and gorge themselves on food and wine!

To be honest the whole thing makes me feel sick!

Spot on Roan.

[chickadeedeedee]

Talk. Talk. Talk. Where's the action?

I do love my country but honestly if there is no profit in saving the planet, short term, the American businesses won't go for it and the politicians are in their pocket. They'll agree to do nothing so they can get re-elected. Oh, they'll talk a big game and say this needs to be done and that needs to be done .....

Well, heck! How much pollution is getting dumped into the air as the presidential candidates criss-cross the country a bazillion times over campaigning to become president? Air planes are not exactly enviomentally friendly. The campaign is in the early stages here too.

But ..... We need to do more research into the matter so we can be more efficient or even more enviomentally responsible... blah ... blah ... blah...

We're "looking into" alternative fuels to oil. Yep. We've been doing that since the 1970s. Still lookin'. Pres. Bush still does not believe global warming is a reality. He thinks it's a theory. All he needs to do is go out to Alaska and see the glaciers are gone or nearly gone. Melted away! Polar bears are 30% less heavy than 10 years ago because the ice is melting faster and their feeding season is substantially shortened.

In the interum, big business makes bigger profits. And we'll keep looking into how to change things for the better.

[mickthecactus]

Talking of climate change C3D, how's your weather?

[chickadeedeedee]

Hi Mr. C.

We only got 6 inches or so of snow yesterday. The storm is over and now we get to showel and plow our way out of the drive. Also need to clear areas again for the birds and squirrels and bunnies to feed as well.

Don't know if you saw them but I posted some of the snow storm stuff in the garden gallery for our garden.

Thanks for asking.

[mickthecactus]

chickadeedeedee said:

Hi Mr. C.

We only got 6 inches or so of snow yesterday. The storm is over and now we get to showel and plow our way out of the drive. Also need to clear areas again for the birds and squirrels and bunnies to feed as well.

Don't know if you saw them but I posted some of the snow storm stuff in the garden gallery for our garden.

Thanks for asking.

Glad you're OK.

If we get a snowflake in this country everywhere grinds to a halt.

I'll have a look at your pictures.

[cheerypeabrain]

4pygmies said:

I quite agree and the level of contempt and indifference it shows for the peoples of this world makes me feel sick too. But I did feel slightly reassured when I saw the levels of frustration and upset felt because of the behaviour the more recalcitrant delegates (you know which country I mean....)... there are some people at the conference who understand their responsibilites I think, a few anyway..... A wasted opportunity though.

I've spoken to quite a few people at various astronomical meetingsand the general feeling seems t be that it's all too little too late. One lecturer told us that within 50 years there'll not be enough drinking water on the planet for the population. The gulf stream is already loosing power as it's temperature driven...below is quoted from a BBC webpage about the gulf stream...

Gulf Stream

The world's oceans move constantly. Ocean currents flow in complex patterns and are affected by the wind, the water's salinity and temperature, the shape of the ocean floor, and the earth's rotation.
How does it work?

The gulf stream is one of the strongest ocean currents in the world. It is driven by surface wind patterns and differences in water density. Surface water in the north Atlantic is cooled by winds from the Arctic. It becomes more salty and more dense and sinks to the ocean floor. The cold water then moves towards the equator where it will warm slowly. To replace the cold equator-bound water, the gulf stream moves warm water from the Gulf of Mexico north into the Atlantic.

The gulf stream brings warmth to the UK and north-west Europe and is the reason we have mild winters. The average annual temperature of north-west Europe is about 9C above the average for our latitude.

At the end of the last Ice Age, when the ice sheet covering North America melted, the sudden increase in fresh water reduced the salinity of the north Atlantic surface water and therefore less 'dense water' sank and moved towards the equator. This reduced, or even shut-down completely, the warm gulf stream. Temperatures in north-west Europe fell by 5C in just a few decades

Recent observations have shown that since 1950 there has been a decrease of 20% in the flow of cold water in the Faeroe Bank channel between Greenland and Scotland. This is one source of cold dense water that drives the density-based component of the gulf stream. There may be an increase in flow from other cold water sources, but, if not, it could be the start of the slow down of the gulf stream.


Today, the Greenland ice sheet is more stable, but an increase in global temperatures (and therefore melting sea ice) and precipitation may add more fresh water to the north Atlantic, similar to what happened at the end of the last Ice Age.

Current climate models predict that if greenhouse gas emissions continue to increase, the component of the gulf stream driven by the differences in water density is likely to decrease by 25% in the next 100 years. As the gulf stream becomes weaker, it may become less stable and therefore be more likely to shut down completely in the future.

[canarycreeper]

Just to agree with everything said by Cheery - plus one more thing to chew on. The consensus seems to be that those who will bear the heaviest burden of global warming live in the developing world - partly because their arable land may end up being used for biofuels, and partly because they lack the technology to avert or mitigate consequences such as floods. And as long as the rich world's politicians believe (even if mistakenly) that the consequences of their inaction will be borne by people in the developing world, they will be less motivated to take action.

In fact, I firmly believe that very little will happen until it becomes a political issue in the developed world - until politicians believe that there are votes in combatting global warming. And, sadly, right now too many people (voters) are complacent, and refuse to accept even minor modifications to their lifestyle ... cheers ...